Curse

AeroLion · Sep 22, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

And a mesmer completely shutting down opponents differs how? A good ranger is one of a very few counters to mesmers. They screw with rangers then i want across the board nerfs to the ways mesmers shutdown their opponents, especially against melee.

Please tell me how a mesmer can do the following things in about 10-12 seconds: completely lockdown monks, necros, other mesmers, rangers, and elementalists while also killing them and paying a minimal amount of attention to what skills their opponent is using. Oh and you can only use 4 or 5 skills to do this.

User Name · Sep 22, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

It just reduces the damage of it by a reasonable amount, and that's by having the interrupt skills ignore (not cancel) any preperation bonuses currently on you.

that's not even a nerf...that's the way it SHOULD have been....and the only reasonable way to fix this build. interupts SHOULD do damage...if you're casting your awareness on the battlefield SHOULD be down. Therefore you would take more damage. Interupts doing a bit more dmg makes perfect sense....this proposed "fix" doesn't take away the effectiveness of the skill...only the ability to spam spike dmg using it. I don't see 'fixing' the skills to work this way as hurting anyone who isn't abusing the hell out of Savage Shot.

Zorlag · Sep 22, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syno Nym

What's sad in fact is how people can't see why there are so many complaints.

Let's see how a ranger can interrupt :

1_Choking gaz + Quick shot
2_Incendiary arrows + Tiger's fury
3_Punishing shot + Savage shot + Distracting shot (+ Serpent quickness)

The first combo is balanced because of the duration and cost of Choking gaz. Moreover, the damage this combo deals isn't that great.

The second combo is balanced because Incendiary arrows has a very short duration (even shorter than Choking gaz) and a fairly long recast time.

The third combo is imbalanced because you can use it with Kindle arrows, and have a better interrupt rate than you would have with Choking gaz or Incendiary arrows, and deal a great amount of damage, almost CONSTANTLY.

Practiced Stance + Choking Gas + Tiger's Fury is good too (just run Favorable winds and your arrows are fast enough). Choking gas doesn't interrupt skills however. Echo can be fun with distracting and serpents to quickly render spamcaster useless.

jpofbo · Sep 22, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Well would ward aginst melee and ageis work at all u cast it and just stay in it tell and once they attack u hit them and move up and cast ageis and ward again
you keep doing this untill u kill them

Shinsei · Sep 22, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpofbo

Well would ward aginst melee and ageis work at all u cast it and just stay in it tell and once they attack u hit them and move up and cast ageis and ward again
you keep doing this untill u kill them

Aegis works, and there's a reason why it's called ward against melee. Every team should run atleast 2x aegis's because of this build and IWAY, and the fact that it works in almost every other situation just aswell. However, even with 2 copies of aegis, a team with 5+ of these rangers can spike through it or just babysit the aegis casters with interrupts.

As soon as we pull away from the counters discussion the better.

Eonwe · Sep 23, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drow Ingpool

Yes and we are talking about Rangers....lol You are telling me these skills own in HoH?

Its OBVIOUS to a fool how easy it is to counter these.... plz try again

Drow

Because counters exist does not mean that certain skills are necessarily balanced. People would always bring up this argument when Ether Renewal was being discussed, and I'd get a kick out of it. Here's why...

Using your logic, and for the sake of argument, let's say that tommorow Arena Net decides to add a new skill to the game. It's a necromancer skill called "Omfg wtfbbqpwned." The skill description reads "Spell. Kill target foe instantly."; and it has a 3 second cast time/20 second cool down. Now, obviously this spell could be countered with an interrupt, but would that make it balanced? Hell no.

Goonter · Sep 23, 2005, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Practiced Stance + Choking Gas + Tiger's Fury is good too

You cant run Practiced Stance with Tigers Fury. Once you start Practiced Stance your attack speed is basic because you cant use another stance.

Ive played an interupt ranger since retail. After the buff to Punishing and Savage Shot we have been a serious thorn in everyones side.
I can understand the buff to Punishing Shot. As an elite, I never touched it because I could not rely on it as an interupt.
I was surprised as hell to see Savage Shot get the same treatment.
Savage Shot maybe one of the best non-elite skills in the game now.
I like Savage Shot as a reliable interupt now.
But, to be honest, imo it needs to get toned down.
The new casting speed is perfect.
But the recharge needs to be equal to or more than its elites counterpart.
Id say make it 8 to 10 seconds.
That may not change much, but hopefully it would make timing shots more important that spamming them.

Its funny as hell that people are pissed at rangers. From my understanding this is the most nerfed classes from beta up until now and after countless threads of "rangers dont do damage, dont support the team, yadda yadda" people are upset with what rangers can do, when they can do anything at all.

Quote:

all you need Practiced Stance for is the small window right before applying choking gas. You can switch stances to say, TF, after choking gas has been put on, and the recharge will still be affected by the Practiced Stance from before.

I stand corrected.
.....but it doesnt change how I feel about what I said afterwards.

Eonwe · Sep 23, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

You cant run Practiced Stance with Tigers Fury. Once you start Practiced Stance your attack speed is basic because you cant use another stance.

You just go Practiced Stance... Choking Gas.... Tiger's Fury. Exactly the way the guy you quoted said it. It works fine.

ElderAtronach · Sep 23, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

To answer the inevitable question, all you need Practiced Stance for is the small window right before applying choking gas. You can switch stances to say, TF, after choking gas has been put on, and the recharge will still be affected by the Practiced Stance from before.

Perth68 · Sep 23, 2005, 06:21 AM // 06:21

why not block the attacks with aegis or others??

rigor mortis +spike=gg and a lingering just for fun.

Phades · Sep 23, 2005, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by IxChel

Are you serious?

Even mesmer interrupts are not even half that good. If you are wanding
someone, for instance, and you click an interrupt -- you finish your wand
attack -- which almost always causes your interrupt to be far from .25s.
So, if you are an interrupt mesmer, you really have to forgo your wand
attack or you undermine your entire build. Are you saying that these
bow attacks don't honor the refire rate of the bow? That's a serious bug;
not a ballance issue or a nerf issue, that's an honest to goodness bug.

When a ranger clicks an interrupt skill, they should finish their current
bow attack; and the next bow attack (with it's normal, modified as it may
be, refire rate) shouldhave that "skill" replace the normal damage that
would be done. If they don't want the "delay", they should stop firing
their bow like a mesmer would stop using their wand. If it works any
other way... it's just ... broken.

That wouldnt solve the problem if the only thing they are doing is chaining the "spell like" skills that have no after cast time that would be simulated by forcing them into the bow attack sequence. I believe quick shot also reproduces this effect, as commonly ive seen the dual shot followed by quick with 3 arrows in the air at the same time (might be the other way around, judging from the damage notation, but im just working off of memory here). Cant dodge/block/evade/stray (whatever) them either due to kindle and other arrow effect buffs. The sad part is that these interupt skills hurt more than someone doing that the quickshot method.

Another thing i cant quite get my head around is concussion shot always applying the effect even if the skill isnt interupted like the text would suggest. While having arcane conodrum, migraine and concussion effect would put monk some skills into the realm of reality, it seems a bit much to allow that kind of effect stacking for any other proffesion. Stacking logic, in addition to refresh times and overal effect for many skills really do need to get looked at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Its funny as hell that people are pissed at rangers. From my understanding this is the most nerfed classes from beta up until now and after countless threads of "rangers dont do damage, dont support the team, yadda yadda" people are upset with what rangers can do, when they can do anything at all.

That would be known as mis-information ftw.

UltimaXtreme · Sep 23, 2005, 06:41 AM // 06:41

this is something i would have to agree on being "overpowered".

the problem with this is u can machine gun interrupt every couple of seconds, and with 14-15 marks you do tons of damage at the same time.

Pharalon · Sep 23, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

How much energy does a ranger have?
Unless you're an E/R you won't have that much.
Fireing Savage, Punishing and Distracting should take 25 energy on my calculator.

Interesting, on mine it's costing all of 7. Yours is obviously busted.

Aegis reduces the damage by about 1/3, because the preps ignore any type of evade. Besides, any counter you give to it is equally applicable (actually more so) to a standard damage bowman. Besides, it's already been pointed out that points about counters are meaningless, especially as this is an internal class balance issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

None of you so far have stated exactly why skills based on interruption should do more damage than the ranger skills devoted to damage.

Wow, up to page 4 and still not one counter to the crux of the argument here. Obviously those arguing against some form of rebalancing have such well thought out and blatantly obvious responses to the points presented that they don't even feel it's neccessary to post them.

Phades · Sep 23, 2005, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharalon

Interesting, on mine it's costing all of 7. Yours is obviously busted.

Is that with or without a zealous bowstring?

Pharalon · Sep 23, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Is that with or without a zealous bowstring?

With Zealous.

Eonwe · Sep 23, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Is that with or without a zealous bowstring?

Just do the math. I'm assuming he'd be using 14 expertise from looking at his answer.

Punishing would cost 4, savage would cost 4, distracting would cost 2. For a total of 10 energy.

3 hits = 3 energy gain

10-3 = 7

.

Phades · Sep 23, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Then why not add in innate regen as wel.

Shinsei · Sep 23, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Then why not add in innate regen as wel.

Because the combo's under 1 second.

FrogDevourer · Sep 23, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Cleaned up sterile rant posts again.

For those who just wake up, the topic of this thread is: "are ranger interrupts balanced or not and WHY?". Some posts in this thread gave solid proof that they may be overpowered since the latest updates. If you don't understand why, I invite you to reread the whole thread before posting.

We encourage constructive discussion, so you are much welcome to post your opinion. Just don't forget to use a *real* argument with solid backup, not the just the same old generic statements we can find in 34560 threads. Thanks.

Arguments which have been proven to be irrelevant:
- This build can be countered
- It's not (yet) abused in arena/tournament/pve or whatever
- Please don't nerf my precious ranger
- It's flavour of the month
- I don't want anything to be nerfed, the game is fine
- Rangers are weak (or it's hard to find a group without interrupts)

Phades · Sep 23, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

3 .5s skills end up being 1.5s as previously stated. With 2 pips of energy, i thought that would be 1e every 1.5s making the cost of the total combo slightly less, if you were to guage total use time assuming 100% uptime. In other words, time till total burnout.